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Indians (read, Hindus) need to reaffirm their faith in their tradition and scriptures. Indian history needs to be freed from the grasp of the flag bearers of westerm interest and its blind followers.

Vindicating traditional historiography: Ramayana accurate portrayal of ancient India

Come Carpentier de Gourdon

10 Sep 2012

A fundamental feature, but also an enduring flaw of the modern scientific method is that it strives to ignore ancient data in order to set up a cultural “tabula rasa” on which it may carry out research and build its own edifice. Traditional annals are regarded a priori as inaccurate, due to the positivistic prejudice that people in the remote past were far less knowledgeable than us, and had access only to primitive intellectual and material tools to investigate and record data.

In the case of India, the florid, allusive, metaphorical and dithyrambic emphasis of the style used by ancient bards convinced their western readers that there was little factually accurate information (at least as far as geography and chronology were concerned) to be gleaned in the old epics and poems. The cosmic resonance given to the heroes’ actions further demonstrated in their view that the haze of legend impenetrably wrapped what little factual core there might have been to the tales told. The fact that Valmiki’s Ramayana is a Kavya stood as proof in skeptical eyes that it was not in fact Itihasa – a record of real happenings.

In recent decades however, the progress in various scientific disciplines has led to a reevaluation of that supposedly “rationalistic” appraisal, and the Ramayana for one is being rediscovered as an “odyssey” that is a periplum of ancient India which is not only topographically informative but chronologically accurate to a degree which modern techniques to resuscitate the past on the basis of some archeological and epigraphic fragments could never reach.

It is strange indeed that the academic community tends to reject a lot of information contained in ancient texts which it does not understand, or does not wish to seriously consider, while it takes pride in reinventing a lost world on the basis of inevitably hazardous detective work on a few tiny indices, “recreating a skeleton out of one retrieved tooth” so to say, in the manner of Sherlock Holmes. Conan Doyle was a novelist, but one often wonders if many paleontologists, paleo-anthropologists, archeologists and ancient historians do not create fiction – or at least “faction” i.e. more or less informed guesswork or speculation – which they wish all to regard as proven fact and are very reluctant to revise even when newly discovered evidence should force them to.

Coming after many other convergent theses, the book by Saroj Bala and Kulbhushan Mishra “Historicity of Vedic and Ramayan Eras” (Scientific Evidences from the Depth of the Oceans to the Heights of the Skies, I-SERVE, 2012) enshrines a valuable array of scientific testimonies backed by hard proof, gathered by some of the best specialists in their respective fields, many holding senior posts at various national agencies of the Government of India. It argues and persuasively demonstrates that the chronological records of ancient India were reliable, at least in some cases, and that the claims of traditional scholars about the antiquity of their scriptures are correct.

Thus, the Indian royal annals quoted by Megasthenes and subsequently by other Greek writers, find support in recent findings and must be far closer to truth than the rather arbitrary attempts at reconstruction made by Western archeologists and linguists on the basis of superficial bookish information in the last hundred and fifty years. The 19th century western approach to the origins of Indian civilization was initially informed by the underlying biblical belief that the world had been created about 4000 BC and then it got influenced by the theory of evolution which saw most of mankind as slowly emerging from savagery in the last four millennia, to find its way to rational knowledge and progress in Greece around 600 BC. Such a conditioned, narrow and deterministic worldview could not harbour the data gathered from little known disciplines in which ancient Indians excelled, such as astronomy, agriculture and botany.

What are the main data provided in Bala’s and Mishra’s book, first presented at a seminar in July 2011(inaugurated by former President APJ Abdul Kalam), that are supported by many other results gathered over the last decades:

1] The Ramayana tells a story which took place in the sixth millennium BC, between 5114 BCE (Sri Rama’s birth, according to the astrological theme given by Valmiki, on Chaitra Shuddha Navami of Punarvasu Nakshatra, date when Rama Navami is celebrated to this day) and 5075 BC (the year he ascended the throne as 64th king of his “Solar” dynasty), in an area encompassing much of its modern territory, from the Ganga basin (Ayodhya and Prayag) to Sri Lanka. Many of the places and sites mentioned in the Epic (more than 250) have kept the same names and vivid traditions connected to the passage of the royal and divine trinity. They retain most of the physical and climatic features noted by Valmiki. The least that can be said is that the author or authors of the kavya were well acquainted with all those locations, personally or through the reports of other travelers.

The dates recorded for the various events narrated in the story (astronomical coordinates that can be recreated with the help of planetarium software as well as, in some cases, eclipses are listed which have been found to be factual for those dates and regions) are also internally and sequentially consistent with the unfolding of the plot. Either the expedition of Rama was chronicled by a contemporary witness who was also a skilled astronomer, or a historian (perhaps Valmiki himself) not too long later was able to reconstitute the zodiacal map out of the dates he was given or personally remembered. That seems like a remarkable achievement, but it would be in keeping with the astronomical proficiency evinced by several ancient civilizations in Asia, Africa and Meso-America, among others.

2] Although it is impossible to establish the date when the Ramayana was composed, since the oldest extant manuscript, preserved in Nepal, is “only” a thousand years old, it stands to reason that knowledge of the topography, vegetation, population and astronomical configuration at the time, of the diverse locations described, implies that the initial account dates back to the period when the narrated events took place

Indeed, absent a computer and sophisticated software, it would have been exceedingly difficult for any poet flourishing many centuries later to “turn the zodiacal clock” back to the time when he wished to situate the story, not to mention that he had no need to do so if he was writing a work of fancy or an imaginative reconstruction. There is no escaping the conclusion that initial records at least were kept during the course of Rama’s journey (as was the use for the lives and deeds of kings) and inserted in the later epic at whatever time it was composed, but there is plenty of literary and artistic evidence that Valmiki’s classic was well known for centuries before the advent of the Common Era. 

Intriguingly, as Pandit Narayan Aiyangar pointed out, there are mentions of Rama and Sita in certain Richas (hymns) of the Vedas (1) whose astronomical references has allowed Bala, Mishra and their team to date it between the ninth and fifth millennium BC.

3] On the other hand, archeological, paleo-botanical, oceanographic and remote sensing findings all coincide in the recognition that settled, refined agricultural civilisation with elaborate art and craft techniques – in wood, textiles, stone and metal – existed in large parts of India from about 8,000 BCE and possibly earlier, at the beginning of the Holocene period which, following the end of the last glaciation, ushered in an era propitious to the development of agriculture, and hence to demographic growth and cultural progress.

Evidence for it is concentrated in the Indus-Saraswati-Ganga-Yamuna river system between present-day Afghanistan and Iran and the modern state of West Bengal (Mehrgarh, Kot Diji, Naushero, Dholavira, Lahuradeva, Jhusi, Takwa, Hettapati et al). Some regions covered by that civilization were in contact with and active at sea, as the Rg Veda repeatedly indicates, from at least the fourth millennium BCE (i.e. the port of Lothal and others, some of which have been located submerged under the sea). There is also archaeo-agricultural evidence that rice, wheat, barley, grapes and many other food crops (up to 29 kinds of grains, pulses, fruits and vegetables) were cultivated by the seventh or sixth millennium BC.

4] While the permanence of poetically embellished historical memories is significant to any cultural anthropologist or historian immersed in the local Indian cultures, the estrangement of western “armchair” scholars of centuries past from the facts on the ground, both geographical and chronological, explains why they generally ignored traditional references, preferring to speculate about unprovable linguistic derivations and suspected origins of the “Indo-European” Rama whom they did not wish to place earlier than 1200 BC (assuming he had ever existed) in order to make him fit in with the supposed date of the Aryan invasion, set by them three hundred years earlier, in an era comfortably less ancient than the Biblically hallowed Chaldean and Egyptian archaic dynasties.

Yet it turns out that if we follow the zodiacal data provided in the Ramayana and check out with the help of modern scientific capabilities, we find Rama’s life is much more accurately recorded – in some cases down to the day and time, such as the hero’s birth, his departure for exile, the death of the “monkey-king” Bali in Kishkinda, the slaying of Ravana in battle and Rama’s victorious return to Ayodhya for his coronation – than those of many axial figures of “western” civilization, beginning with those in the Bible and Greek Epics which, however, appear relatively recent by comparison. Needless to say, the planetary and astral relative positions noted in the Ramayana do not recur for many thousands of years, so that there is little uncertainty about the period in which they took place.

5] It is also archeologically borne out that the wooded and forested areas of Central India where Sri Rama, his consort, and his brother dwelt and traveled during their 14-year exile, were haunted by tribes and dotted with ashrams or spiritual/educational colonies headed by rishis, proficient in various branches of knowledge.

For example, the Ramayana refers to Rishi Agastya, who is traditionally held to have lived at the very tip of South India near Cape Comorin where several places are named after him, and to have had his ashram near modern-day Nasik where he gave Rama, on his way to Lanka, some spiritual and material weapons to fight Ravana. Agastya (whose name etymologically is said to mean “calmer of the ocean” or “mountain thrower” but which may in fact come from a Tamil euphemism for the soul: “he who belongs inside”) gave his name to the star Canopus because he was the first to observe it and Canopus became visible over the horizon in the Northern Deccan and the Vindhyas only from about 5100 BCE, thereby providing one more internally coherent zodiacal reference.

Legend has it that Agastya was born in a pitcher and that he was the head of the Vellalar clan of South India. Coincidentally or not, Canopus (Kah Nub in Egyptian, which means “golden earth” and applied to both the star and the town) was the name given to a port city in the Nile Delta, famous for its clay vases with a human head that represented a local icon of Osiris (Oser-Isvar), seen as god within a pitcher. The Indian Agastya, like the Egyptian Canopic god, was associated with the sea and ships and in “western” astronomy Canopus, also known as the Southern Pole Star, is part of the Argo Navis constellation. For the Chinese and Japanese, Canopus is the Old Man’s Star, a clear reference to the Vedic spiritual master.

6] The Ramayana also describes several caves, some inhabited, and indeed in the Central mountainous belt stretching from the Western Ghats to the Bay of Bengal innumerable rock dwellings and sanctuaries display many types of art, from Paleolithic parietal paintings to monumental Hindu, Jain and later Buddhist sculptures and cave architecture. Central India appears to have been, as the Ramayana and the Vedic texts describe it, a wilderness where scholars, hermits, students and ascetics took refuge and built hermitages away from the densely populated and urbanized northern plains.

7] The picture that is emerging out of geological, paleo-climatic and oceanographic findings is that between 12,000 years BCE (when many ancient annals record the great floods that marked the end of the glacial period) and 5000 BCE, the melting of glaciers gradually raised the level of the oceans by a stupendous 80 meters in the Indian Ocean/Arabian Sea region (according to a report by Dr. Rajiv Nigam, head of the paleo-climate project at the National Institute of Oceanography quoted in the book), submerging huge tracts of land and releasing mighty rivers that flowed down from the Himalayan massif towards the sea.

The Puranas indicate that two of Rama’s royal ancestors, more than twenty generations earlier, undertook large scale projects to channel the water from the Shivalinga glaciers eastwards towards the Bay of Bengal in order to control the floods in the Punjab-Rajasthan area. The chroniclers attributed the rise of the ocean around that period to the release of large amounts of fresh water thereby engineered. The same scriptures also refer to a number of tribes or nations that migrated from the subcontinent in the same era (around 6000-5500 BC) towards West and North Asia.

We can also conclude from that that Rama lived considerably earlier than the era when the “Indus Valley” civilization port of Lothal was built, as archeological evidence shows, since the Arabian Sea level was higher than it is now between 6000 and 4000 years ago. From that latter date the port had to be abandoned as the coastline had changed following a new drop in sea level which probably enabled Sri Krishna to build his capital at Dwarka on reclaimed land, according to the Mahabharata. 

Coincidentally, it has been convincingly established that a similar rise in the level of the North Atlantic submerged the so-called Doggerland, the “British Atlantis” which encompassed what is today the United Kingdom as well as Scandinavia. That vast and densely populated Greater Europe gradually sank under the water between 18 and 5500 BCE. An exhibition entitled “Drowned Landscapes” on the discoveries made in this area by a collective of Scottish, English and Welsh Universities is currently taking place at the Royal Society, since July 2012.

At the time Rama and his army reached the southern tip of India at the place since known as Rameswaram, the sea level was still about 3 meters below the present one, and indeed, the bridge reportedly built by the architect Nala for the king of Kosala and his troops is still visible less than 3 meters below the surface.

According to the Geological Survey of India’s research, that bridge or causeway is an artificial construction. Specifically its report says: “Ramasethu is a natural formation, the top portion of which appears to be man-made” as it consists in part of stones and rounded coral pebbles that were obviously transported and put there. This observation tallies with the Ramayana’s description of the way the causeway was built by connecting many islets and shoals strung along the Palk Strait, filling in the gaps and building a road on top. Considering that this structure is over 30 kilometers long, its construction ranks as one of the most stupendous achievements of archaic mankind.

The Indian Ministry of Earth Sciences further noted: “There are some raised Teri formations that supported a vast assemblage of Mesolithic, microlithic tools indicating the presence of strong human habitation and activity as early as 8000 to 9000 years before present and as late as 4000 years ago”.

8] The Ramayana describes Sri Lanka, which has kept its original name since, as a part of the “Aryan” civilisational area. Its King Ravana, from the Rakshasa tribe, a descendent of Visravas, was a brother of Kubera, the lord of wealth also euphemistically called the “king of the world”, monarch of the northern quarter (Uttarakurus), beyond the Himalayas, who ruled the yakshas (from where the god Thraco-greek Iacchus-Bacchus and the Tibetan Yaks seem to have taken their name) and gandharvas (Gandhara – Gedrosia for the Greeks – is modern day Afghanistan and Northern Pakistan). The name of Kubera is etymologically related to Siberia, if we keep in mind the sata/centum dichotomy – which is not split by a clear East/West divide, contrary to the original theory – among Indo-European languages. The Shubras or Shubrians for instance were a Middle Eastern, probably Iranian people, settled in Eastern Asia Minor who were conquered and assimilated by the Assyrians from the 8th century BC onwards.

Ravana, Kubera’s brother and Rama’s foe is also said to be descended, like all Rakshasas, from Rishi Pulastya and to be a great devotee of Shiva (3) so that his cultural kinship with both the “Aryan” Rama and the “Dravidian” Agastya is attested, over and above the conflict. A common origin for the peoples of the subcontinent from North to South was hence recognized and anthropology vindicates that belief as both the Sinhalese and Tamil inhabitants of Sri Lanka belong to the greater Indian genetic family.

The authors of the book under review have visited various sites in Sri Lanka and identified various sites described by Valmiki rather precisely, including the caves opening on four sides of a hill that led to Ravana’s rock-hewn fortress, in the region of Nuwara Eliya, the island’s central massif. The tradition of building palaces on top of steep rocky hills, surrounded with terraced gardens and harbouring deep caves used for habitation, defence and worship, remained alive until medieval days in Sri Lanka as can be seen in the renowned sites of Sigiriya and Dambulla.

8] Over and above the fact that hominid bone remains and tools found in the Indian subcontinent date back to more than two and a half million years (4), DNA research yields the definitive conclusion that the Indian population is overwhelmingly homogenous since some 55,000 to 60,000 years when it is believed to have moved in from Africa. Strangely (but is it?), some traditional Puranic chronologies situate the beginnings of civilization with the arrival of the first Manu of this cycle some 56,000 years ago. In Southern Siberia, recent genetic tests have shown that an earlier human population, known as Denisovian, sharing many traits with Melanesians and Australian aborigines, mingled with homo sapiens newcomers before vanishing as a separate genus, probably migrating from the South, about 50,000 years ago.

The Greek historians after Megasthenes quoted the Indian royal annals as beginning with the first sovereign of the Solar Race whom the Greeks called Bacchus or Iacchus (Ikshvaku in Samskrit), in 6776 BC (5). That fits chronologically with the nomenclature of 63 kings who ruled Kosala before Sri Rama as listed in Valmiki’s opus (whereby Ikshvaku would have lived some sixteen to eighteen centuries before Sri Rama), and indeed, since about 7000 BC at least all scientific data confirm that an autochthonous civilization experienced consistent development, displaying increasing sophistication and expanding far and wide even beyond the subcontinent. Royal annals further assert that Rama’s two sons and the sons of his brothers and half-brothers, eight in all, ruled as many kingdoms, spread from the Eastern Gangetic plain to the confines of Afghanistan (Taxila and modern-day Peshawar).

9] From a climatic point of view, it is logical to assume that the first settlements of homo sapiens in the subcontinent were located in the South, closer to the Equator and less affected by glacial ages. Indeed, there are traces of prehistoric villages in Tamil Nadu which predate the Toba’s explosion in Indonesia, as shown by the volcanic ashes that covered them around 60,000 years ago. The first Indian civilization should thus have taken root in the South before moving northwards and settling in the riverine plains in the shadows of the great Himalayan chain, well after 12,000 BCE. If that is so, Ravana and his Sri Lanka kingdom would have belonged to an elder branch of the Indic ethnic family.

10] Contemporary developments in linguistic archeology, however disputable those may be, reveal at least according to P. Foster and A. Toth (2003) (6) that Indo-European languages are probably derived from a common ancestor that was already spoken more than 10,000 years ago. From about 5000 to 3500 BCE there are traces of the expansion of that linguistic family throughout Eurasia, from Urals and the Volga to Central Asia. J Greenberg (7) has gone further back in time and tried to show the existence of a common Eurasian macro-family that includes non Indo-European ones, such as the Uralic, Altaic (Turkic) and Afro-Asiatic languages, formerly known as Semito-Hamitic as well as Elamo-Dravidian. His thesis connects with the Nostratic theory in its various interpretations, which generally propose the existence of a common proto-Nostratic source in the Epipaleolithic Age, towards the end of the last glaciation.

There is much common ground as well with the hypothesis of Paleolithic Continuity or PCC (8) which India’s pre-history and history, corroborated by human genetics, illustrate with great clarity as this report shows. Bomhard estimates that 5000 BC (Rama’s age) was when the Proto-Eurasiatic linguistic family divided into Indo-European, Proto-Uralic and Proto-Altaic branches.

The academic school which seeks to prove since Colin Renfrew, that there is an Anatolian origin (in modern day Turkey) for all those “Paleolithic” languages, has not made its case beyond doubt so far, and there might well have been a common linguistic motherland spread over a wide area comprised between North-Western India and Eastern Asia Minor.

Atkinson’s phylogeographic attempt (sciencemag, August 23, 2012 by Nicholas Wade) to establish the common forebear of all Indo-European languages by using a computer to mimic in reverse the evolution of 103 languages of that family, yields Anatolia as the urheimat some 8 to 9500 ago; but its conclusion is disputed by other experts who continue to believe that the westward Indo-European expansion began only in the fifth millennium BCE, either from Asia Minor or from the Black Sea steppe region. However, it is not even clear whether the Kurgan culture, the supposed ancestor, beyond the fact that it was Eurasiatic, was Indo-European or Uralic; so a lot of controversy remains. Further, the now confirmed existence of an epipaleolithic civilization in submerged “Doggerland” even before the dawn of the Holocene throws in disarray all the other theories about human migrations.

The motherland of Eurasiatic or Nostratic languages more than 12000 years ago remains undetermined and could as well as been located in South Asia as in Anatolia.

11] The evidence of a steep but gradual sea level rise in the first five millennia of the Holocene force us to consider the possibility that many settled and populated areas were swallowed by the ocean, and that only those populations which moved to higher grounds were able to survive. That accounts for the traditions preserved in South India about the vanished continent of Kumari Kandam that some have identified with legendary Lemuria, and also for the discovery of extensive urban ruins, more than 8000 years old, under the water of the Gulf of Khambat and Arabian Sea off the coasts of Gujarat and Saurashtra. Tamil civilization traces its origins back to the once emerged lands which now lie beneath the Indian Ocean to the west of Sri Lanka, and the earliest known Dravidian royal dynasty, the House of Pandya, claimed to have ruled over Kumari Kandam and that could only have been before the sea level rise, i.e., prior to the seventh millennium BCE.

Coincidentally Plato recorded that Atlantis, which he located beyond the pillars of Hercules, sank into the Atlantic Ocean sometime after 9600 years BCE, probably as a result of the post-glacial sea level rise around the time when “Doggerland” also became submerged in various stages.

12] There are many “supernatural” elements in the Ramayana (as in all ancient epics, such as the Iliad, Odyssey, Mabinogion, Beowulf et al) which have made scientifically minded scholars wary of lending any credence to the story as a whole. However, the insertion of prodigious characters and miraculous events seems to have been a required feature for heroic tales and records of the ancient world on all continents. The interpretation of those epics need not be literal. In the Ramayana, the vanaras, monkeys who formed Rama’s army along with other wild animals may be regarded as forest dwelling tribesmen which had the langhur or macaque as their totemic animal and emblem, just as the crest of Kosala was the two fishes that have remained in the arms of the successive dynasties of Awadh (Ayodhya) (9) until the present.

 It is a universal tradition in fables and legends to lend animals many of the moral and physical features of human beings and involve them in the story as equal protagonists. The vanaras may well be Central India’s pygmies cited by Ctesias, who reported that they were experts in archery and provided soldiers to various kings. They also may be at the source of Greek reports about India’s kalystroi or cynocephali, a dog-headed, monkey-tailed population of mountain-dwelling hunters and herdsmen with a reputation for honesty and justice. Jatayu, the giant eagle that tried to rescue Sita from her abductor in the Ramayana appears to be a mythified vulture identified in ancient travellers’s accounts with the fabulous griffins, semi-human birds of prey which kept watch over gold mines.

13] There remains however an enigma which is harder to unravel. One is the repeated and detailed mention of sophisticated weaponry, quite out of character with the technology of that pastoral age, and of flying vehicles, including the golden puspaka vimana (shaped like a flower or lotus and also alluded to as a cloud in the sky) which Rama took from the slain Ravana in order to fly back to his capital city in a few hours, after taking many months to complete the onward journey on foot. Analysing this aspect of the story is another subject, which “Historicity of Vedic and Ramayana Eras” does not address. But we can only wonder whether Ravana and his Rakshasas, as the oldest branch of the post-glacial population in the subcontinent, closer to the submerged land of Kanya Kumari, had kept or gained access to an advanced scientific knowledge that their northern cousins long settled in the Sapthasindhu region had lost. That would account for the semi-divine or supernatural status they were given in the cosmography of the day.

The inevitable conclusion of this review of available facts, old and new, is that civilization in India – as in other parts of the world – is much more ancient than archeologists generally think, and that most sites excavated so far in Sumer, Iran, Anatolia, Egypt and the Indus Valley, are more recent, by several thousand years, than the cities and settlements described by Valmiki.

 India’s civilisation can only be compared in terms of antiquity with the contemporary societies of Egypt, the Levant, Asia Minor, Iran and Central Asia whose early, often monumental remains, found at Gobekli, Catalhoyuk, Jericho, Zarzian, Hissar and Keltiminar date back to the age of the Vedas. As Valmiki’s masterwork indicates, Rama and his India were the heirs of a very ancient indigenous culture rooted in the pre-holocene glaciation period.

Notes 

1] Aiyangar notes that the Rig Veda mentions Rama Margaveya who first pressed the soma sacred brew, whereas the Yajur Veda dedicates four stanzas to Sita, daughter of Prajapati. The author, who also notes that Rama Jamadagni or Parasurama is an older avatara of the Sri Rama archetype, gives an astronomic interpretation of most Indian myths and epics and equates Rama with the god Indra and with the Sun, while Sita is the star Betelgeuse, and Ravana the moon. This however, does not contradict the original human history as it is common for legends and their characters to assume a cosmological dimension. For instance, the fact that George Washington owed his given name to an Indo-European dragon-slaying Spring God (Georges) similar to Indra does not make the father of American independence less historically real.

2] In Northern Pakistan, Kashmir and Uttarakhand, skeletal fragments and lithic tools date back to 2,5 -2 million years before present. Proto-Hominid remains in the Kalagarh basin of Uttarakhand (Ramapithecus) are about 10 million years old.

 3] Shiva, one of the many names or euphemisms given to Rudra “The howler” or the “Red One”, seems related to the Thracian Evoe, (Iahweh?) used both as an invocation and a surname of Bacchus or Iacchus. In Indian languages certain names lost their initial s consonant, as in siddhi (samskrt) to iddhi (pali).

4] The Greek interpretation of the first Indian king’s name as Iacchus translated as Dionysos suggests that it was derived from the Vedic Ikshvaku who came second after Manu in the traditional chronology. The Greeks generally equated Iacchus-Bacchus with Shiva as both were said to dwell in the mountains (Kailash, the Caucasus or Zagros respectively) surrounded by wild animals and to induce a sacred intoxication in their followers. The wedding of Bacchus and Ariadne, a foster daughter of the Cretan bull, also has connections with Nandi-riding Shiva’s betrothal with Parvati. Vishnu on the other hand was identified by them with Herakles-Hercules who also carried the mace, wore a lion skin (Narasimha?) and was celebrated for twelve heroic feats reminiscent of the Indian God’s ten world-saving avatars.

5] P. Foster and A. Toth “Towards a Phylogenic Chronology of Ancient Gaulish, Celtic and Indo-European” PNAS, 100 (15), 9079-9084 (2003). They conclude that Indo-European languages took shape in 8100 BCE (between 9600 and 6600 BCE) and that Celts reached Britain about 3200 BCE.

7] “Indo-European and Its Closest Relatives: The Eurasiatic Language Family” (2 vols, 2000-2002)

8] The Paleolithic Continuity Theory or Paradigm expounded by Mario Alinei in his book Origini delle Lingue d’Europa (1996) holds that Indo-European languages in Europe are indigenous and developed during the Paleolithic period, but it is disputed also on genetic grounds as recent mitochondrial DNA research (B. Bramanti, sciencemag.org) has shown in 2009 that a large influx of farming people in Europe at the beginning of the Neolithic provided the ancestry of most modern Europeans by supplanting the earlier Paleolithic hunter-gatherers (see Arrredi, Poloni, Tyler Smith’s The Peopling of Europe in Michael Crawford’s Anthropological Genetics (pp. 380-408)).

9] Note that according to his astronomic birth chart, Dasaratha was born with the Sun in Pisces (Meena). His son and heir Rama was born under the sign of Aries (Mesha the Ram), which follows Pisces in the zodiacal cycle. There are parallel cosmological, symbolic and historical dimensions in the epic.

The author is Convener, Editorial Board, World Affairs Journal. In 1999, he co-founded the Telesis Academy in Switzerland, dedicated to the study of the ancient wisdom of East and West in the contemporary scientific context. He has been associated with the Nuclear Disarmament Forum and the Foundation of Global Dialog in Switzerland.

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Similar to the rust-proof iron pillar (also known as the Ashoke pillar) of Delhi, India,  that graces the Qutb complex, we come across another rustproof iron wonder, recently discovered.

As per Wikipidia, the iron pillar, which weighs more than six tons and is 23 feet tall, is believed to date back to as early as 912 BC. Incidentally, the pillar initially stood in the center of a Jain temple complex housing twenty-seven temples that were destroyed by Qutb-ud-din Aybak, (another evidence of Islamic atrocitity) and their material was used in building the mosque and Qutub Minar complex where the pillar stands today. The pillar has been called “a testament to the skill of ancient Indian blacksmiths” because of its high resistance to corrosion, due to both the Delhi environment providing alternate wetting and drying conditions, and iron with high phosphorus content conferring protection by the formation of an even layer of crystalline iron hydrogen phosphate.

 

The depth of History

The name Sunrakh doesn’t ring a bell for those who have bought flats at posh residential colonies across the road. But very soon, this sleepy village off National Highway 2 will add a new chapter to ancient Indian history, particularly in the use of iron.

Vrindavan is right next door, and, in fact, a turn from Chatikara leading to the temple town takes one to this village. After a couple of potholes, the road disappears into a dusty path that leads to a water tank, which local residents believe to be around 3,000 years old.

Ramtaal is undoubtedly one of the oldest sites in the region, as per British revenue records. And like many archaeological and heritage sites, this, too, lay forgotten till Braj Foundation, a voluntary organisation recharging and conserving water bodies in the region since 2005, discovered it.

Having recharged almost 40 kunds or water bodies—most of them ancient and in remote areas—across the Braj region in the last seven years, the NGO came upon Ramtaal. Removal of encroachments was a tough task as was de-silting as the tank had turned into a flat field, says Vineet Narain, chairman of Braj Foundation. The process started in December 2011 with financial assistance from Kamal Morarka, CMD of Gannon Dunkerley Group. Deep de-silting brought out the original tank, and further excavation revealed iron used in the plinth of the structure. “The surprising part was that molten iron plates used at the bottom of the tank had not rusted,” says Narain.

S K Dubey, Archaeological Officer of the state Archaeological Department, who has taken samples of this iron, says, “This kind of use of iron, at the plinth level, is indeed a unique discovery. However, a lot needs to be examined before drawing conclusions. The bricks used in the water tank seem to date back to at least the 7th century while the bottom level may be older. We plan to send the samples to our Lucknow office for further examination. Though iron has been in use for the past 3,500 years, usually plaster-like arsenic or bitumen is found in such ancient tanks. The use of iron is, thus, rare and more so because there is very little evidence of rusting,” he explains.

The tank measures 120 feet in length and 180 feet in width, while its wall is 4 feet 6 inches thick, with a 1.5-metre-wide and 2-inch-thick iron plate running through it. “The brick size is 12 and ¼ inch x 8 ¼ inch with a thickness of 2 ¼ inch. The specifications match those given in Samarangana Sutradhara, a text compiled by Parmar ruler Raja Bhoj (AD 1000-1055) for constructing a public water tank,” claims Project Manager Bipin Vyas, who has been involved in various heritage restoration works in Mathura and Agra.

History professor Virendra Singh, a native of this village who teaches at Government College, Kushinagar, and has done extensive research on Mathura region, says that Ramtaal finds mention in several ancient texts such as poet Jagadanan’s Brajvastuvarnan, and that the site dates back to the Kushana period. He, too, agrees that use of iron in a water tank and that at the lowest level is unusual. “We need to find out the reasons why it has not rusted, and whether it is 100 per cent iron. Perhaps samples should be sent to the Birbal Sahni Institute of Palaeobotany, Lucknow, for proper carbon dating. This will be a new chapter in the history of the region,” he says.

Singh points out another angle to the discovery: “There are no iron ores near Mathura. However, Ramtaal is situated at the junction of five highways of the Kushana period. Also, the Yamuna flowed close by then. Thus, a powerful individual or organisation—maybe a king—is likely to have brought iron via these highways or boats carrying iron plates must have anchored near this place. This seems a possible explanation. After all, Mathura was an important Hindu and Buddhist centre, an ancient janpad, and even during Mughal rule, a trade centre between Agra and Delhi,” he says. Singh puts the date of the site around 2,500 years ago.

Project Manager Vyas, however, says that archaeologists from Bangalore have unofficially confirmed it to be 2,900 years old.

The excavation has been brought to the notice of the district administration as well. Sanjay Kumar, District Magistrate, Mathura, says, “While the work done so far by the NGO is commendable, the administration will have to wait for a formal report from the archaeological department. Once the findings are final, the district administration can approach the Archaeological Survey of India. Meanwhile, we can ask the department to speed up the work.”

For the local villages, there are issues other than those of historical importance. While some feel that once the findings get a formal stamp, Ramtaal will no longer be a village property, others hope the development and promotion of the site will lead to employment generation. Rajesh Chander, a member of the gram panchayat, has another worry: “Encroachments and land grabbing is happening in connivance with local revenue officials, and hence, things may not be smooth for making Ramtaal a tourist spot,” he says.

The Braj Foundation, however, has grand plans. Narain cites the example of the ancient Brahmakund in Vrindavan that they have restored and turned into a tourist spot. “We will ensure that the original structure is protected, and renovation and beautification done in a manner that will attract tourists, and development done in order to generate employment,” he says.

 

Opponents sulk but cannot hide their disappoinment. The ‘maut ka saudagar’ has beaten them again ….

God is great, tweets Modi after Supreme Court verdict

New Delhi, Sep 12 (IANS) Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi Monday thanked god after the Supreme Court verdict directing a trial court to hear a petition against him in the killing of former MP Ehsan Jafri in the 2002 riots.

“God is great,” Modi tweeted on the microblogging site Twitter.

The apex court order came after a petition filed by Zakia Jafri, the widow of Ehasan Jafri, urging a probe into Modi’s role in the Gulberg society carnage and the trial of the case by a special court outside the state.

BJP leader Sushma Swaraj congratulated Modi, saying truth has won.

“Narendrabhai has passed Agnipareeksha today. My heartiest congraulations to him. Satyameva jayate. Varshon baad aaj satya ki vijay hui,” she tweeted.

A Muslim’s Way Out of Islam

FrontPageMagazine.com | Monday, March 03, 2008

Frontpage Interview’s guest today is Hossain Salahuddin, a poet, essayist and an ex-Muslim who is the author of several books. He is the editor of the magazine Maverick, which promotes literature, freethinking and rationalism.

FP: Hossain Salahuddin, welcome to FrontPage interview.

HS: Thanks very much for having me. It’s a real pleasure to be here.

FP: Tell us about your childhood and your upbringing within Islam.

HS: I was born in 1984, into a Muslim family in Bangladesh . My family was rather orthodox and they made sure I learn the Quran properly even before they enrolled me in a school. I had a home tutor Mullah, who taught me reciting Quran in Arabic- and I was actually good at it. I remember completing the whole Arabic Quran three times before I turned 12 without even understanding a word of it. If I try to remember, I can feel that it was pretty suffocating with all sorts of do’s and don’t. You can’t do this, you can’t do that, and there was that constant reminder- “You are a Muslim, you should act like one.”

So, yeah, my childhood was not something that I am really proud of. There were all sorts of religious restraints around my neck and that actually affected my relationship with my family members. But, I should say I was still a believer back then; only there was a slight discomfort in me with the practicing form of Islam. I admit that I had a rather troubled childhood but I didn’t turn into a rebel just yet.

FP: What caused your second thought and your ultimate abandoning of Islam?

HS: Well, when I was around 13 or 14, I developed a great interest in creative writing, especially in poetry and I started to spend a lot of time reading books and writing poetry. I remember borrowing up to ten books at a time and reading them in a row. History, Science, Philosophy, Religion, Literature name it, all sorts of books. It was a fascinating time I can tell you that. I guess I was mentally a bit matured than my actual age, and I really cherish that part of my life as a period of illumination.

I think books taught me to think and judge things rationally, to escape from the world of prejudice and irrational beliefs. Books were my true liberator, it’s the best companion I ever had. But, it wasn’t always fun. My family didn’t take it lightly as they were noticing some change in me and also my teachers at school. In fact it was the teachers who gave me all sorts of trouble. Unfortunately, most of my teachers were very orthodox Muslims and they didn’t like my writings. They even banned my writings from the school magazine which really upset me given that I was probably the only student who could write creative things. And they were constantly reminding me that Islam doesn’t approve poetry, music, painting, mixing with non-Muslims or reading texts of other religion and it really confused me.

There was only one way to find out: by reading Quran and Hadith in my mother tongue. I read the Quran over and over again and couldn’t believe what I was reading. I started to mark the questionable verses and wrote comments beside them. I wondered, are these versus full of hate being spread and preached everyday in all corners of my town? I was completely dumbstruck. Initially, I thought it was the translation that was to be blamed. But I collected many different translations of the Quran and very reputed Islamic scholars translated some of them. You can say I was really shocked and I spent almost two years of my year 9 and 10 searching for answers.

At year 10, my first book of poems was published and by year 11, I was convinced that Islam itself was a very violent belief. By reading Quran or any other Islamic text in your mother tongue, there can be two effects on you: you could either turn into a violent, brainwashed Muslim ready to eliminate anything that opposes you, or you could abandon Islam altogether and become a free man. I choose the former path and at a very young age.

FP: Did you face the threat of violence for leaving Islam? Are you still in danger today?

HS: Well, leaving Islam was not an instant decision; it was rather a gradual process. I think by the time I reached 12, I consciously abandoned Islam altogether. And some of my closest friends knew about my views on Islam. I think some of them were really shocked. So, leaving Islam was a private matter at the beginning, I didn’t share it with lot of people initially.

Obviously there was the fear of making a majority of Muslims upset. So, what I did was, I started to question a lot to spread my message. I learned it from the life of Socrates, that’s what he used to do, and it can be very effective sometimes. I started to question Islamic beliefs and traditions in a lot in my writing and that put me in trouble. Although I had some like-minded friends and we used to call ourselves Freethinkers, I made some nasty enemies as well and I was aware that they were watching my every step. But, you know I was young and careless—so I kept going.

Finally, the waiting game was over and they physically attacked me one night- I was very lucky to escape only with some sharp cuts and bruises. After that incident I slowed down a bit, stopped going outside and tried to concentrate on writing at home. I think it was in 2002, when an Islamist organization published a book and declared me a Nastik-Murtad or “Apostate-Infidel”. So, I didn’t really have to declare leaving Islam publicly, they did the honor for me.

After that I decided to leave the country and in 2003 I came to Australia as a student. And if you are asking whether I am still in danger today, well all I can say is that I never underestimate their reach. It’s not just me, anyone who is non-Muslim, or a born-Muslim who doesn’t care about Islam much — anyone who is different from them is in danger today and it’s the sad reality.

FP: What are your thoughts on Arab imperialism and Islamic colonialism? And how does a non-Arab convert’s mind work in this context?

HS: What always struck me the most was that Islam is another form of Arab colonialism in disguise. In South-east Asia you will see people constantly cry about the British Colonialism and how they are still a victim of it. However, no one ever talks about the Arab colonialism which is very active in every single non-Arab Muslim country. Islam is in its origin an Arab religion, and it is not a religion of conscience, private belief or spirituality; it is very political and imperial. Its holy places are in Arab lands, its sacred language is Arabic, and its historical figures are all native Arab. So what happens to a non-Arab convert’s mind is very interesting.

A convert starts to dislike his own culture as non-Islamic and he becomes fascinated by the Arab influence and wants to be a part of the Arab story; ironically, he starts to praise the Arab Warrior who conquered his land. And to do that the first thing he does is to turn away from everything that is ethnically his and he lives in a world of fundamentalist fantasy to purify his non-Islamic culture.

You can see this neurosis and nihilism in the mindset of converts and you can say it is an incurable mental disease which has been affecting them and disturbing the societies for thousands of years. Arab colonialism is both political and cultural and I think it is the longest surviving form of colonialism. You see it is now a fashion to blame European Imperialism and colonialism, west and Israel in general – for every ill in this planet; Muslims are never ashamed to join this blame game. But, when it comes to Arab imperialism or Islamic colonialism, Muslims feel proud and they admire the warriors who once came from the Arab world and conquered their forefathers’ land.

This way, Islamic colonialism and Arab imperialism together have conquered and destroyed many advanced and ancient civilizations and brought catastrophic changes in the cultures of the conquered lands. You can say Arabs were the most successful imperialists of all time, because the faithful converts love to be conquered by the legendary “Holy Warriors” of the “ Holy land ” – it is some sort of salvation for the converts.

FP: Your interpretation of Islam’s holy war?

HS: Islam has always been associated with political expansion and that’s where Jihad or holy war comes into affect. Quran and Hadith repeatedly say that nothing is greater, so far as goodness goes, than Jihad in the name of Allah. Some apologists will try to tell you that Islam is a religion of peace, Jihad is allegorical, and it does not mean violence etc. But the bloody history of Islam tells us a very different story. And the Quran is actually supposed to be taken literally. Muhammad repeatedly said that the Quran is not poetry or allegory; it is the clear voice of Allah himself so that everyone can understand and take it seriously; it is actually blasphemous even to think the Quran as an allegory.

In Hadith, the collection of traditions, Muhammad asked his followers to stop any un-Islamic practice by force many times. As a religion, Islam has a long tradition of deep rooted hatred towards unbelievers. In the Quran, Allah repeatedly commanded Muslims to engage in Holy war and promised unlimited reward in the afterlife if one becomes a martyr in the war for the glory of Allah.

If you ask a Turkish Sufi Dervish who does that beautiful swirling dance, you won’t get the literal picture of Islam. You will rather get a pleasant humanitarian view of the Mystic Sufi philosophy. But, unfortunately, Mainstream Islam considers Sufis heretics and they were regularly persecuted by orthodox Muslims throughout history.

To find out the true meaning of Jihad, you have to look at the life of Muhammad, his companions and the later rulers and thinkers of Islam. You will get an extremely violent picture. Even Muhammad’s immediate successors used the term Jihad to refer to the conquest of new territory, so I don’t see much scope for misunderstanding here.

No matter what apologists try to tell you about the meaning of Jihad, to most Muslims it simply means Expansion of Allah’s Kingdom in the command of Allah himself. If they die in the pursuit they are a martyr or Sahid, someone who is guaranteed by Allah to go to heaven straightway without facing the trial in the judgment day.

Islamic scholars like Taqi al din ibn Taymiyyah, Mohammad ibn abdul Wahhab, Sayyid Qutb, Abdullah Mawdudi, Hasan al Turabi have a lot to answer for in this matter. Modern Jihadists frequently cite these scholars as their source of inspiration. They argued that Muslims are in a cosmic battle against the force of darkness. These forces of darkness should not be tolerated, and although Allah is ultimately responsible for the destruction of darkness, Muslims are required to fight it. That’s why as of today no famous Muslim cleric or Muslim country condemned terrorism. You see, almost everything of the western way of life contradicts Islamic belief – the West automatically becomes the target, hence, Islamic scholars divided the whole world into two different spheres: Islamic World or Land of Peace and Un-Islamic World or Land of warfare.

FP: So Islamic terrorists are not misinterpreting Islam?

HS: No, terrorists are not misinterpreting Islam; in fact they are interpreting Islam very correctly. Theologically, it is a Muslim’s holy duty to fight until the whole world turns to one Allah because there can not be any other God. Allah is pretty autocratic among the Gods and he doesn’t like to co-exist with any other deity. It sounds funny but its true; how many Muslim countries practice democracy? Liberalism, individual privacy and freedom, freedom of speech and freedom of belief – all of this and any other component of modernity you can think of directly contradicts Islamic belief.

No matter what apologists say, “Islam” and “freedom” are two opposite words with opposite meanings. You see, unlike Christianity and Buddhism Islam is not a personal religion; Islam is very practical, social, highly political, and unspiritual and its goal is to win the world empire. Islam penetrates even very personal aspects of human life and dictates. Islamic law or Sharia is considered divine legislation and it dictates every single aspects of human life, from using toothpicks to how to perform sex; from slaughtering animals to what verse you should recite when you are in a toilet etc. Anything you can think of.

FP: What are your views on Muhammad and his worshippers?

HS: To me, Muhammad is undoubtedly one of the most influential characters of human history in the sense that billions of Muslims are still ready to die for him, and it is unique given the extent of his influence. However, one of Muhammad’s few likable characteristics was that he never claimed himself to be perfect although billions of Muslims think so today.

I think Muhammad was always aware of his human shortcomings and he did everything to ensure that he is not worshipped instead of God. But, to Muslims Muhammad is sinless, the most perfect and greatest man who ever lived in this planet, and he is even the greatest of all prophets. Every Muslim worships Muhammad, knowingly or unknowingly and reacts with unprecedented violence if he is defamed by a cartoonist or a novelists or anyone in that matter.

However, if you follow Muhammad biography recorded by famous Muslim scholars such as Bukhari, Ibn Ishaq, Al tabari you will find many incidences of Muhammad being far from a perfect, sinless man. His cruelty towards Jews, Meccan Pagans and his rivals is well recorded by Muslim historians. He massacred three entire Jewish tribes – Banu Nadir, Banu Qurayaza and Banu Qaynuqa; killed the prince of Khaibar and made his wife captive to his tent: there are numerous examples; you just have to read the Muslim biographers in any translation you wish.

Apologists of Islam will try to justify these actions with there hollow logics; but if you are a prophet you should have a better moral outlook than the average human. Muhammad married 12 or 13 times — which contradicts his own preaching of a maximum four marriages, but what I find most disturbing is, Muhammad married his closest friend Abubakkar’s 6 year old daughter Ayesha. Now if you do that in a modern civilized world, you will be disgraced as a pedophile and spend the rest of your life in prison.

In another disturbing incident, Muhammad was attracted to his adopted son’s wife Zayanab and later even married her. As a leader, he failed to announce his successor which led to the bloody Shia-Sunni division in Islam and you see the second, third and fourth Caliphs of Islam all were assassinated as a result of this power struggle. These are just a few of the incidents of a very eventful life of a very influential man. But, as far as I am concerned, Muhammad was no saint. No doubt he is extremely influential, but I don’t see a perfect-sinless man in him as Muslims try to idolize.

FP: Let’s talk a bit more about Islam as a totalitarian belief system – as you discussed earlier.

HS: As I said earlier, Islam is in a cosmic battle against the un-Islamic world. I think – apart from the mystical Sufi sects, who are mostly branded as heretics by mainstream Muslims – the rest of the Islamic world and its belief systems are undoubtedly totalitarian in nature.

You see, followers of no other religion try to create international associations of nation-states that are based on religion. Only Muslims do and they call it ummah or followers of Muhammad, very similar with socialists and communist revolutionaries.

In personal label, Islam tries to penetrate every phase of life; the sole purpose of Sharia law is to control religious, social and political life of mankind in all of its aspects. Jihad and Sharia are two ultimate tools of Islam’s control mechanism. Muhammad’s life reflects the very nature of a totalitarian system. There was no separation of church and state; not just a prophet Muhammad performed as a statesman, lawmaker, judge, community leader and in many other roles.

So, you can clearly see the beginning was totalitarian in nature. Muslims are required to follow the Quran, the Hadith (deeds and words of Muhammad) and the verdict of Islamic scholars in case the answer is not found in the scriptures. Interestingly, while all other law is human and constantly evolving, Sharia is divine and immutable – human intelligence cannot criticize it, it must be accepted without any doubts and questions.

So, you can see a very tightly controlled society here without any hope of individual freedom. Sharia contains all sorts of crazy principles, such as, intolerance towards pagans and Jews, inequality between man and woman, religious, social and financial restrictions for non-Muslims citizens, acceptance of slavery and polygamy, barbaric punishments like chopping hands and feats from opposite sides to pulling out eyes and beheading — all sorts of things.

These laws were handed down over a thousand year ago and they didn’t evolve since then. Clearly Sharia is out of touch and not compatible in our twenty-first century. In the last thousand years we have progressed a lot, but the Islamic law and its worldview is stuck in the medieval desert, for generations Muslims are stuck with it as well and they need rescue. No surprise, there is hardly any intellectual progress in Muslim societies. How can there be progress if they regard the Quran as eternal truth and the final solution for all the problems? Progress requires change, Islam is unchangeable. This is why Islam is not just a religion, it is a totalitarian belief system and Muslims are the first victims of it — but very few of them realize that.

FP: How about those Muslim reformers who are trying to bring Islam into the democratic and modern world? Is there any hope for their efforts? If they asked you for help, what advice would you give them?

HS: Look, I don’t think you can be a Muslim and a reformer at the same time; it’s a paradox and contradictory in terms. Islam forbids reformation, and Muslims feel proud boasting that unlike the Bible, the Quran didn’t go through different editions and versions; it is pure, holy and untouched.

Muhammad insisted throughout his life that the Quran is the literal word of God – the truth once and for all, that’s it. So how can you bring reformation and remain a true Muslim? That’s a puzzling contradiction and I think it is misleading too. These reformers will keep telling you that Islam is the religion of peace and real Islam doesn’t approve the actions of the Talibans, Islam has nothing to do with Jihadists etc. You will eventually get tired of that. This denial is pathetic, you don’t have to go that far to see if real Islam has anything to do with these barbaric acts or not. Just read the Quran, Hadith, Sharia – Islamic texts and they are everywhere. That’s why it is so important to permit debate and criticism about Islam across the globe. Honest and sharp intellectual engagement is very crucial to create a democratic and modern nation.

FP: What advice would you advise to those who want to save western civilization? How best can we fight our enemy in the total war?

HS: London , New York , Sydney – all these big cities have one thing in common: most Muslims go there to improve their economic condition – big cities are like beauty queens- used by all and loved by none.

Most Muslims have already made it very clear that they have no intention of being assimilated into the host society; instead they are repeatedly asking to implement Sharia Law in Canada , UK , and Australia — as if it is up to the host society to change instead.

To a Muslim mind, Islam is a universal religion and he hopes some day the whole of humanity will embrace Islam. So, there is an element of expansion mentality in them, because Islam is not limited to home and personal relationship. To Muslims, Islam is a complete code of life and society must adhere to that code. So, you see, the world view of Islam is very totalitarian and you have to fight it intellectually, not just militarily. It is also a war of ideologies, we must not forget.

Unfortunately, some western societies continue to turn a blind eye when there is a Muslim-on-Muslim violence: such as, teenagers forced by migrant parents to follow Islamic codes. Some western societies are too politically correct to take any action when a freethinker is attacked for his unbelief, scared of losing the popular Muslim vote or political support. I believe that the West must always adhere to its secular principles and take prompt actions when there is violence against women or somebody is forced to follow Islamic codes. This will send a very clear message to Islamists and potential jihadists. There are an increasing number of Islamic schools in western countries, this is another way to brainwash children at a very early age and isolate them from the mainstream society by implying that We are Muslims, they are Christians; we are different. They eat pig, we don’t; we are different, by forcing girls to wear hijab sends a clear message: we are sacred, they are not, and they are whorelike.

So, it is very dangerous to turn a blind eye in such incidences in the name of promoting multiculturalism. Respect for other cultures, other values is important and a crucial component of secularism and democracy; but, if these other values are here to destroy our own civilization and modernity – then we have fight them vigorously- with reason, argument, criticism, legal and military means if it turns into violence- so that our values of civilization are protected.

Religious belief is fine; but the practices, literal submission to scriptures; religious institutions should not be tolerated. By saying that, a Muslim should have absolute freedom to his personal religion; but if he jumps up and demands the death penalty of a writer or preaches hatred in a community he should be disciplined accordingly by law.

As I said, the West must adhere to its secular principle and defend its democratic right and freedom at all costs and politicians should stop being too politically correct and they should be unapologetic when it comes to defending the core values of civilization.

However, we should remember it is not necessarily a battle between the west and Islam — as some like to portray it to fulfill there own agenda. As I said before, Jihadists divide the whole world into two spheres – Islamic world and un-Islamic world. I won’t do that. To me, it is the ultimate battle between those who value freedom, peace and humanity and those who do not, and we must triumph at all cost for the sake of our own existence.

FP: Hossain Salahuddin, thank you for joining Frontpage Interview. Thank you for your bravery and your fight for freedom and truth.

HS: It’s an honor. Thanks.

 

Now the UPA government has somebody to collaborate with, in manufacturing and propagating Hindu Terror.

Kind of ‘Terror Diplomacy’  – much like Cricket diplomacy

 

 

LeT wants Srinagar blast blame on Hindutva outfits

Friday, April 08, 2011 12:58:20 PM by IANS

 New Delhi, April 8 (IANS) Intelligence agencies have intercepted a telephonic conversation of Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) spokesperson in Pakistan asking a Kashmiri journalist to put the blame of Friday’s Srinagar blast that killed a top religious leader on Hindutva groups, including the Shiv Sena.

Message (was) intercepted between Abdullah Ghaznavi, LeT spokesperson in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir and a reporter in Kashmir,” said a source privy to the interception.

He said that LeT leader during the telephonic conversation “directed (the reporter) to spread the message to misdirect people that the blast in Srinagar was done by the Shiv Sena and Bajrang Dal and that more such actions (are) likely by these organisations”.

Prominent Kashmiri religious leader Maulana Showkat Shah, a trenchant critic of last year’s stone throwing youngsters, was killed in a powerful bomb blast outside a mosque in Srinagar, triggering a spontaneous shutdown that crippled life in the Jammu and Kashmir summer capital.